Listening to the unabridged version of Kirkman's Manifesto and then his WordBalloon interview with John Siuntres(both actually in John's Kirkman episode), I started Twittering in the middle of my workout at the gym. In the midst of it, Jamaal Thomas (of the mighty Funny Book Babylon) started Twittering about the same and sparked a bit of a debate about it. I had so much fun that it's one of the few times I was glad someone had conflicting opinion. ;)
khuxford Wait, Kirkman wants the big two to focus on teens? Do we really think it's too complex for literate teens now? about 6 hours ago from txt
khuxford Wow, nice job, CBR: you edited out the part where Kirkman concedes that maybe some wouldn't be happier his way. about 6 hours ago from txt
khuxford Ok, CBR, maybe it balances out: edited out that big two might be treating creators too nice and paying too much, also. about 6 hours ago from txt
khuxford Wait, Kirkman says you have to jump in, then says there's nothing wrong with doing both? This is PR BS. about 5 hours ago from txt
khuxford Tackle one problem at a time, but you choose content for kids before figuring out how to get to them? Ugh. about 5 hours ago from txt
khuxford Kirkman is just rambling, modifying stances on the fly. You shouldn't be spitballing without forethought at this level. about 5 hours ago from txt
khuxford Ugh! How does Kirkman miss the idea that mature books were fine for him at 14? It's not complexity that is the issue. about 5 hours ago from txt
khuxford Wait. Name creators can go back to big two if creator stuff fails? For chump change after big two go unknowns? Argh! about 5 hours ago from txt
jamaal30 @khuxford I think that a lot of people forget that creators are not scholars or p/r people. There's bound to be some inconsistencies about 5 hours ago from Twittelator in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 This wordballoon w/ kirkman is interesting.. I don't think that he's effectively communicating his 'take the plunge' point about 5 hours ago from Twittelator
khuxford It's a shame that everyone will try Destroyer Max and Killraven instead of his stuff because he's not all in. about 5 hours ago from txt
khuxford @Jamaal30 it isn't just inconsistent: he directly contradicts himself every few minutes. 180 degree differences. about 5 hours ago from txt in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @Jamaal30 you have to admit: @johnwordballoon pressed for depth in Kirkman's answers like you wanted on Van Sciver. :) about 5 hours ago from txt in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford from what I'm hearing, he's presenting arguments, and backing down when confronted with facts that undermine it about 5 hours ago from Twittelator in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 @khuxford and I don't know if we're listening to the same podcasr, but I feel like he's making a pretty coherent argument about 5 hours ago from Twittelator in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 @khuxford it's not a perfect argument, but that's the nature if all big picture theories about 5 hours ago from Twittelator
jamaal30 @khuxford he did a great job about 5 hours ago from Twittelator in reply to khuxford
khuxford @Jamaal30 I heard him say leave WFH completely, then backed off, then said you can't give reader Spidey and other 2 pick about 4 hours ago from txt in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford When he was tallking about Spidey, he was contrasting it w/ Invincible. about 4 hours ago from web in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 @khuxford If you give a reader a choice between two similar books, it's likely that they'll choose the most familiar one about 4 hours ago from web in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 In comparison, if you have say, one of hickman's WFH books vs. one of his Image books, the differences are more pronounced about 4 hours ago from web
jamaal30 not to mention the fact that he was talking about an ideal (do all creator owned), while acknowledging that one cant generalize about 4 hours ago from web
khuxford @Jamaal30 props for using "American exceptionalism" in comic book podcast. If I had a group podcast, FBB'd be the model. about 4 hours ago from txt in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 Funny, he didn't say Invincible that I remember. I still contend that people are watering down what he said when praising it. about 1 hour ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 You're coming up with an explanation like you're trying to win a No Prize. ;) He contradicted himself all over the place. 41 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford you're holding him to a ridiculously high standard, like he's a politician or a ceo. i just dont think the 'contradictions' matter 37 minutes ago from digsby in reply to khuxford
khuxford @jamaal30 They do. How do you expect to have your ideas treated seriously when you put so little thought into them? 31 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 The contradictions, also, matter if you can't actually pull one coherent message out, instead of 3-4 competing ideas. 30 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 He does have a coherent message - creators should do more creator-owned work, particularly if they've been contemplating it. 24 minutes ago from web
jamaal30 All the other stuff is window dressing. Btw, being treated seriously by who? Us? Bendis? I don't think mid tier guys are dismissing him 23 minutes ago from web
khuxford @jamaal30 First they have to drop all WFH, then they don't, then having choice of WFH or CO will always have fans buy the WFH 23 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 DC & Marvel have to go all unknowns and do all kid appropriate, then name creators can still do WFH there, then big two can do... 22 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 mature lines or graphic novels of their "all kid appropriate" characters. Where are the artists in this? 23 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford He's trying to explain that the risk of going CO isn't as high as they might think. So if people want to go back, they can 22 minutes ago from web in reply to khuxford
jamaal30 @khuxford Yeah, the second part of his argument relates to his theories about the future of the industry and the audience 20 minutes ago from web in reply to khuxford
khuxford @jamaal30 That's one of the umpteen different versions of his idea he runs through. It's the one you picked out of the many. 20 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 But he contradicts himself all over the place, leaving no clear, definitive position. 19 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 it isnt really convincing b/c he has no real business experience, but i think lots of comic fans have serious status quo bias 19 minutes ago from web
khuxford @jamaal30 Yeah, but he means for that argument to be used in conjunction with the 1st one, yet they don't match up at all. 19 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 I think that he has a pretty clear position - one about the creators, one about the business. 18 minutes ago from web
khuxford @jamaal30 Umm...pretty sure Kirkman said this argument was for top flight creators. Mentioned that midtier might not be good enough. 18 minutes ago from twhirl in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 All of the things that you wrote as 'contradictions' were his efforts to refine his argument, or illustrate that the transition is less 18 minutes ago from web
jamaal30 painful than people think it is. so he says, you dont have to look at being the writer/artist on ASM as the pinnacle of your career 16 minutes ago from web
jamaal30 after listening to the interview, i really dont agree with you re top flight creators 15 minutes ago from web
khuxford @jamaal30 All due respect, no they weren't. Each "refinement" contradicted the prior one & often backtracked to an earlier "unrefined" point 28 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 The conversation that has started is great, but I'm saying he should have "refined" his ideas before popping off at the mouth. 27 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 maybe he'll hire a speechwriter next time 25 minutes ago from web
jamaal30 @khuxford His inability to properly articulate his ideas doesn't mean that we should completely dismiss them. I dont want to play gotcha 14 minutes ago from web in reply to khuxford
khuxford @jamaal30 I just have an anti-pollyanna bias. Kirkman's argument is like Trump saying, "you too can make millions in real estate!" 12 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 Well, you missed it. He spoke of how some writers are middle of the road and get jobs more through history with editors. 10 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford But you too can make millions in real estate. 8 minutes ago from web in reply to khuxford
khuxford @jamaal30 And he argued that all the people who get so much freedom at DC & Marvel should go creator-owned. Those are top flight only. 8 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
jamaal30 @khuxford This whole thing is aimed at guys like him, but I guess we can agree to disagree on that. 6 minutes ago from web in reply to khuxford
khuxford @jamaal30 Ha! But it's as much the lottery ticket shot as John devil advocate'd Kirkman's creator owned argument. ;) 6 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 I gotcha. I just feel it goes beyond communication issues to failure of critical thinking. 5 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 and his lack of forethought/consistency makes me think he spouted it out quickly for the attention rather than the mission 4 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
khuxford @jamaal30 Anyway, sorry to make you feel like I'm trying to play gotcha 2 minutes ago from web in reply to jamaal30
(Thanks to Ed Kaye for plugging this post and the original dissection)