You know...not to get pulled completely into the debate that has been going on for the last few weeks about the Blue Beetle issue...but...
It has been argued that there was an in-story reason for the issue being almost completely in Spanish.
Not so much.
The in-story reason is supposed to be the family reunion with the side of his family that doesn't speak English at all. Right. Lilly, who is married to a businessman with a private plane who is in Metropolis for work, doesn't speak a word of English? That's kind of suspect already. But let's leave that alone for now.
Jaime leaves the shindig and winds up now, for no apparent story reason, talking to the scarab in Spanish...and then conducts his whole discussion with Parasite in Spanish, despite the fact that Parasite's first language is English.
So...let's just completely chuck the idea that this was an all-Spanish issue for story reasons. It wasn't. A majority of the Spanish in the issue didn't even happen around Traci 13, who was supposedly who we English-only speakers were meant to identify with in being lost in a new language.
No, this was a clear grab at trying to attract more Hispanic readers at the risk of alienating the current readership. Not alienating them based on their being racist or ignorant, but from the distinct reading discomfort of not knowing what is going on in the panels without having to awkwardly keep flipping to the back of the book. Yeah...that makes for an experience that immerses you in the story.
And these readers who apparently couldn't be bothered to check out a Hispanic super-hero until there was an issue almost exclusively in Spanish? They're not getting an issue done in Spanish next month...or the month after...or the month after.
So, while incredibly well intentioned, DC Comics risks alienating their already small readership for this title for a particular audience that doesn't really seem to be that likely to come around or stick around? Doesn't seem wise to me. But, then again, this could be a last ditch effort to draw attention to a book that, given DC's recent history of low-selling books that switch creative teams (cough...All New Atom...cough), might not be long for monthly publication.
Wednesday, May 07, 2008
Blue Beetle All-Spanish Issue
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DC went the wrong way with this.
ReplyDeleteI liked Jamie, not because he was LATINO like ARANA THE LATIN SUPERHERO OMG DID I MENTION SHES A LATINO SUPERHERO WITH NO REAL CHARACTER BUT SHES LATINO, but because he was a kid doing things and going about his new role as a superhero in a relatable way.
Those first 25 issues were truly the best Spider-Man stories out in the market, on par with Ultimate Spider-Man for teenage hero antics.
But then to, what I felt, screw with the existing base of readers, which was dwindling already, to put it in a language that is not the major language of the USA (despite what the politicians are trying to do), and expect people to just be ok with it or accept it? Not gonna happen, especially at $3.50. And from what I see at my local store, it's not doing too well either (it was on the FCBD table and it still wasn't moving)
Issue #26 marked a better jumping off point that I could imagine.
You know why Ryan Choi, John Stewart, and Jamie are good characters? Because their race is not the bane of their existence, like ARANA was (who is LATINO). We know Nightcrawler is German but it's not like it's at the forefront of his character either.
This is very true, imagine how equally useless it would be to introduce Muslim characters in order to attract more readers of that persuasion. How many Muslims read comics? What's the point?
ReplyDeleteI mean, comics readers hate brown people, so why write for them? Comics readers by and large are not religious, so why write for them? Such great points here...
I mean, up till now, the Latino family unit has largely dominated the reason for Jaime's character and interaction with others, so what's the point of exploring that further? Yay bigotry!!
That's all well and good...but no one made an argument that there shouldn't be diversity.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think it would be smarter for DC to try putting out a Spanish language series (or translation of an existing series) or digests rather than a one-off issue, if they're trying to attract a new audience via the use of their first language. To make a single issue in Spanish for marketing reasons just seems to make that single issue an inconvenience for the existing (and mostly English speaking) audience and a bait-and-switch for the audience they're trying to lure (since it will go back to almost completely English the next issue).
That whole "don't bother making a muslim" character doesn't quite fit, seeing as how the problem aired (even by the anonymous poster) wasn't about introducing a Hispanic character. Now, if you made it about a muslim character with an all Arabic or Farsi...THAT would be comparable. And I'd argue that it would be at least as ineffective as I feel this move was.
A single issue is cheaper than an entire line. A single issue in a marginal series (though one I love) makes a lot of sense as a test of sorts. DC can see what difference it made for sales, and who ordered more or less. I think the idea that this is an attempt to piss faithful readers off is idiotic if not racist. Personally, I liked it, but I know Spanish. As a storytelling strategy it's a cute move. If Blue Beetle was hemorrhaging readers that badly, what difference does one issue make? From a marketing standpoint, it's not an invalid attempt, personally I do believe that a good number of comics readers are bigots and that's the reason for their anger at having to look in the back of the book for the script to the rest of the book.
ReplyDeleteAnd I do agree, the idea that a Muslim hero wouldn't be a similar situation to a SINGLE Spanish issue of a comic really isn't a valid comparison. Since we would be talking about prolonged exposure to a different way of life and thinking that most of the Western world is used to. Meaning that a single Spanish issue makes WAY more sense than a Muslim character from the way you think things should be marketed.
There are, undoubtedly, a lot of bigoted responses to the issue. That doesn't mean there's no fair negative response to the single issue that isn't bigoted. That's where we have a problem between us. You're on the opposite extreme of closed-mindedness from the bigots: you refuse to see any legitimate dissatisfaction with this gimmick.
ReplyDeleteNo one said that it was an ATTEMPT TO PISS OFF READERS. It was an ill-conceived attempt to win over a new audience. That attempt risked pissing off readers, though.
If a good deal of comic book readers are bigots...well...then that would be a pretty decent obstacle to this being a net positive move. Not saying that bigots' feelings should be considered...but, if what you say is true, it doesn't make good sense to piss off a large segment of your readership. Then again, it seems silly that a large amount of the readership for a Hispanic character who's family and ethnicity have played a large, organic part of his story are bigots.
Part of the problem here is that it wasn't entirely organic. If the whole story had been at the reunion, it would have been much more organic. Had the Spanish speaking happened only where it made story sense, it would have been more organic. That it covered the entire issue despite it not making a lot of story sense for half of it made it much less organic...and the inconvenience of having to flip back and forth that much more hard to ignore.
Funny. A Muslim character wouldn't have to be any more jarring than a Hispanic character. A Western Muslim family can blend in with "American" culture just as much as a Hispanic family. You just go ahead and keep demonstrating your ignorance and bigotry, though. You wouldn't happen to be Benjamin Ong Pang Kean, would you? ;)
Nope, you are a moron, I made that point to illustrate the fallacy of your claim that a Spanish issue was a bad idea. It was supposed to be a ridiculous statement, you nimrod.
ReplyDeleteAnd the first poster in this little thread said that DC made the Spanish issue to screw with their existing readers. Jesus Christ, it's just at the top of the page. And for the record, I do think you're something of a racist, and I am about to explain why:
To illustrate my point, if you are an honest person. (which you are probably not) Check out the fact that my statement about Muslims clearly mirrors your statement that a Spanish issue was a bad idea for the exact same reason. This was entirely intentional, so if you see any bigotry in the remark, it was already there in your original post. See how that works? Most people aren't so dense that sort of thing needs to be explained to them, but I guess for those entrenched in racism and hatred it must be a bit too subtle to pick up. You can thank me for the life lesson, but I doubt you have the character.
-Anonolicious!
Mr. Anonolicious, if that is your real name, the initial poster didn't say that DC did the issue to screw with the readers...he said it had the effect of screwing with the readers. There's a difference...that you apparently missed.
ReplyDeleteAnd it was evident that you wanted to try to spin that Muslim thing to be similar, but you completely missed the mark each time. Again, as no one was complaining about the diversity of a Hispanic character with his heritage mixing into the book (since that was happening for 25 issues), the comparison to presenting the cultural bits of a Muslim character really has no place. The language being an obstacle to getting into the story for those who don't speak Spanish is the issue at hand.
You failed at your attempt to spin it around because you couldn't make a valid comparison.
Since you shat upon the idea of a Spanish language series, I'll suggest this: English & Spanish variants for the issue. You risk a few more bucks as a company, take a chance on luring in a new audience (even when the series goes back to primarily English), and give readers an option.
DC had great intentions with the issue (which the original anonymous poster might not agree with), but they asked the retailers and readers to make the sacrifice, instead of themselves. Heck, they even raised the price so they'd be compensated for the extra pages for the script to appear. DC made a decision to market to a new audience and asked the existing readership to pay the price. That's what I object to.
Make a double-sized issue with both versions of the story, even...let DC eat the cost for their grand aspirations. That's a win/win for the readers and retailers...and history would decide whether it was a win or loss for DC in the end.
Huh, more lies, what a shock. The poster said it was his feeling that DC did it to screw with the existing base of readers. NO doubt about it. And I didn't shit on the idea of a Spanish series, and that was very clear. I said that a single issue would be cheaper and easier to produce as a test for the market. (I said that very clearly, BTW)
ReplyDeleteI didn't have much more to say on the matter, as your points were very simplistic, and thematically my points were made to illustrate the fallacy of what you were saying. As much as it matters when we are both just hypothesizing. My points were clearly stated, it's not my fault you are too obtuse. The thing is, I would be willing to debate in a more friendly and less antagonistic fashion, but you have proven that you are not capable of any such thing. Even when you know nothing, you believe that you are right simply because your mind can twist reality and sense to suit you. (Which is not a unique skill, nor anything to be proud of)
But then to, what I felt, screw with the existing base of readers, which was dwindling already, to put it in a language that is not the major language of the USA (despite what the politicians are trying to do), and expect people to just be ok with it or accept it?
ReplyDeleteA little reading comprehension for you, anonymous: that statement above makes no overt claim on DC's intentions.
Now, the poster MIGHT feel it was their intention to screw with/disrespect the leadership. But all the poster has definitely stated is that the net effect is that the readership was screwed.
And don't get your feelings all hurt just because you don't know how to make valid comparisons. So many other people out there in the world have the same problem. It don't make you a bad person. ;)
Hi, original anonymous poster here:
ReplyDeleteI like how Anonolicious accuses me of racism and bigotry, despite the fact I bought the first 25 issues. I don't really think someone who is a bigot would do that.
What that I wrote is wrong? That I would like to read a book in my language, in the language of the country that it is published in? Are you really going to try and make me out to be some monster because of that?
You know, I accept that the comic community is fairly liberal, but to try and go after someone for voicing a fair critique of BB #26, just to scream intolerance and bigotry, you just show to everyone you have your head up your damn ass. Even Huxford, comrade to the movement, can see that.
I went to Hamburg a few years back and guess what, I saw a damn Dr. Midnite mini series in German. Was I pissed off about that? Of course not because, ta-da, it was in Germany.
It also seems you skipped over my entire last paragraph where i point out what makes a character good is not race, but CHARACTER.
HA! My feelings aren't hurt lil fella, I don't really have any. I made excellent comparisons, BUT you just aren't smart or honest enough to argue them. You would rather argue semantics (or your idea of semantics, anyways) because you can't intelligent enough to debate real issues. That's okay, I am understanding and caring towards the handi-capable. Really, I haven't been entirely honest in my arguments with you because while I made excellent points; I was just choosing to argue those points like you do. Picking apart silly little things and using that to act like it invalidated everything else you said. You may have noticed I wasn't all that great about that part of the argument, simply because I am used to more honest and forthright means of debate. Whatever passes time at work though, it was sort of fun, I guess. Once agin, I made the same points you made, except from a different point of view. The fact that you are not honest or intelligent enough to admit that is your problem.
ReplyDeleteAnd First Anon Poster (if that is your real name, HOHO) I mainly pointed out that you said DC did it to screw with their loyal readers, because it is a silly point that I have seen repeated ad nauseum in a million different variations all around the net. That particular statement doesn't make you a racist, that you made the silly statement that politicians want to make it the national language implies that you might be though. Regardless, you were just a means to an end, my apologies for the offense.
Anyways, having won the argument, it's time for me to ride off into the sunset. Thanks for playing Huxy, maybe one day you'll be grown up enough to hold your own with the big boys. (just kiddin', you won't be)
Yes...you've declared MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, despite the fact that you haven't done anything you claim to have. But do feel free to hold to that running along part. ;)
ReplyDelete"So, while incredibly well intentioned, DC Comics risks alienating their already small readership for this title for a particular audience that doesn't really seem to be that likely to come around or stick around?"
ReplyDeleteAnd what audience is that? Latinos? I'm not sure what you were trying to get at (if anything at all) and I want you to explain it to me because that statement really isn't sitting well with me. It basically sounds like "Latinos don't read comics".
I don't really understand why this 1 issue would chase off that many readers. Any reader that feels that alienated by this issue just because it was mainly in Spanish, drop the book for that alone might have some latent racism. Dropping the book because it was a sub-par issue (my personal opinion), or they think it'll suck without John Rogers is one thing (a thing I wish doesn't happen). That's understandable. Dropping it because the characters are speaking Spanish for one issue!; I say thee nay sir. If you don't want to read Spanish then don't buy the issue. It's that simple. Dropping the whole book is unneccesary.
"And these readers who apparently couldn't be bothered to check out a Hispanic super-hero until there was an issue almost exclusively in Spanish? They're not getting an issue done in Spanish next month...or the month after...or the month after."
Some people are unaware that Blue Beetle features a Latino hero. Hell, alot of people are unaware that Blue Beetle exists at all! So pulling a little stunt like this was a nice way to get some attention on the book since it did garner abit of press (nothing "Oh my God, Captain America is dead! Someone call CNN!" level, but still). The attention might cause some Latinos to pick up this comic they never heard of, and even if most drop it next issue some might stay. New readers means more chance of the book not getting canceled which is better for everyone.
PS While the All New Atom is being canceled there is going to be some sort of spin-off from it. So it's not completely dead.
In reply to peter velez.
ReplyDelete1. This comic book wasn't especially heavily advertised.
2. It cost more than most other comics.
3. The story isn't enticing to new readers.
4. The ploy doesn't really work well at making readers sympathize with Traci's situation, rather it risks alienating it's current fanbase.
If they had simply put translations on panel, and kept the amount of Spanish speaking to a realistic level, rather than making almost everyone in the issue fluent in only Spanish, they may have been able to keep from alienating their fanbase and kept the cost of the comic down.
a) Couldn't it just be an artistic choice? To flip the focus from the language to the art? Like a silent issue?
ReplyDeleteb) Don't USA citizens learn Spanish at school? Enough to get through a comic anyway? I mean, after a UK school education learning French, I can still get about 60% of an Asterix comic and that's puntastic.
Last anon poster (first anon poster here again),
ReplyDeleteSpanish isn't mandatory in school (and it shouldn't be). School here, at least in Dallas, requires a few years of any language. I took German, others could take French or Spanish or Russian; Chinese is a big one now. Everyone gets to choose.
And what audience is that? Latinos? I'm not sure what you were trying to get at (if anything at all) and I want you to explain it to me because that statement really isn't sitting well with me. It basically sounds like "Latinos don't read comics".
ReplyDeleteWhoa. Not what I'm trying to say.
I'm saying any audience that wouldn't be drawn into the book until there was an all-Spanish issue wouldn't seem likely to be kept around when the book goes back to 95% English. It's always been about a Hispanic hero and his cultural background has been shown before.
Anyone who made their decision to check out the book primarily by the fact that this issue was in Spanish doesn't seem likely to stick around when it returns to its regularly schedule programming.
Fair enough Kevin. I just wanted a little clarification on what you meant. Wasn't trying to make you out to be a racist or anything.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in response to anonymous, I still don't think that doing this mostly Spanish issue was that alienating to it's readership.
Peter, after 25 issues I felt that because of this issue, now would be a good time to leave.
ReplyDeleteWhat really irks me is that by doing this, it seems that this is what DC thinks of Jamie. Not his actions with the scarab, not him trying to play with the big league heroes, but that he's hispanic, and that he would be best to use an all spanish issue because the only thing that comes back to Jamie is his ethnicity. I don't like that.
I can see why something like that would bother you anonymous. It's something that I'm also worried will happen to the character. However I don't really feel that with this particular Spanish issue, DC is overplaying his ethnicity. I for one am more worried about the fact that DC is making Matthew Sturges write a 3 issue arc about illegal immigration. That to me doesn't ring true to what the book and the character is about, and is making his ethnicity too much of an issue.
ReplyDeleteMy God, they're writing an illegal immigration story? That can't end well.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm glad I quit reading the book. I can look back at these first 25 with a fondness for them before DC decided to screw BB up with other things.
I commend them on trying to add more diversity in a comic book. With that said, publishing a book that most readers can't read seems like a bad idea.
ReplyDeleteLike most Americans that were born here, I don't speak Spanish. That's not something I am NOT very proud of. I should learn to speak Spanish. Not only because Spanish it one of the world's most widely spoken languages, it's spoken by a majority of our neighboring countries.
It's really quite silly that we as Americans don't speak Spanish. It's actually embarrassing.
I think a better idea would have been to make a 1:10 variant version that was in Spanish.
I think you sum it up pretty well, Rick. I'd prefer that I DID know Spanish...and other languages. I commend even their INTENTIONS in doing this. But I think it wasn't a well-thought out move.
ReplyDeleteThe illegal immigration arc puts this into an even less attractive perspective. Makes it seem more like insulting pandering. It as if the diversity isn't pulling in a wider audience quickly enough, so they're just going to pull out all the stops.
I've really loved this book. I was already a little nervous about Sturges...but now that it seems he'll just be following the outline given to him by editorial, I'm more spooked. If editorial doesn't feel confident enough to let him come up with his own ideas, it doesn't inspire confidence.
What I don't understand is the thought proces that the issue alienates it's existing, non-spanish speaking readers.
ReplyDeleteList me in that catagory. I read the book every month. I do not speak spanish. I decided not to buy the issue because I felt I wouldn't be able to follow the story.
And next month I will pick up the next issue.
I'm not alienated or pissed off in any way. So I skipped a month. So what?
I don't have a issue with the situation... but again... even if I did... why would I stop buying the book because of one issue. Hell... I could make a list a mile long of things that have happened in books I read that has pissed me off... yet I continue to read the title on a monthly basis because I choose to.
Frankly, I think you ALL are making much ado about nothing.
Rocky, if you were driven away from the single issue, that's still an existing reader being alienated in the short term. That's one less sale...but a lost sale that the retailer will likely suffer more than the publisher.
ReplyDeleteAlienated is much too strong a word. Someone who is alienated is made indifferent, or hostile.
ReplyDeleteI skipped the issue in question just like I would have skipped an issue of Justice Society Classified if it focused on a character I wasn't into (for example I skipped the recent Wildcat issues).
I don't feel that the crew of Blue Beetle did anything wrong. I just choose not to read the issue... like I didn't read various issues of Detective, Action, Birds of Prey and The New Atom over the last six months.
I see the point you are making... but I think too much is being made of it and I thnk the use of the word 'Alienating' is way too strong.
That's the thing, though, Rocky. Not everyone who decides to skip an issue with the intention of coming back winds up coming back. Every now and then, a lot of readers have to weed through their pull lists and decide what doesn't make the cut. You don't want to give a customer any reason to drop, especially of a title that is already selling low.
ReplyDeleteBut the other party that can be alienated by DC here is the retailer. If retailers ordered this issue based on the numbers of the previous issues, only to have customers leave it on the shelf and (depending on store policies) pull customers refuse the issue...they're fucked.
I don't know... maybe you are right... I guess we'll have to wait and see... I just thought it wqasn't as bad as people seem to be saying... but I could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteWell, my own personal feelings have me a bit frustrated with the issue and DC's charging me extra for the gimmick...but only Sturges coming on to the book has had me concerned about whether I'll stick around at this point.
ReplyDelete